Proposed changes to the leaderboard

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Bestle, Oct 17, 2017.

By Bestle on Oct 17, 2017 at 1:32 AM
  1. Bestle

    Bestle Administrator
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    As part of our ongoing open discussion with the community, I wanted to open up our internal talks about potential changes to the leaderboard system. The proposed changes would provide further simplification for new players while keeping all of the core mechanics the same or similar. Factions will be once again encouraged to target valuables, rather than leaderboard points OR valuables.

    The changes would be as follows...
    • Factions would be once again ranked on their $VALUE, rather than leaderboard points. The Season winner would be determined by the Faction with the most value.
    • The existing leaderboard points and tokens would combine into a single currency. The new currency would be obtainable through all methods points and tokens currently are (+ any new ones we add). This means that both PvP related activities such as KOTH, Conquest & Castle would provide the currency, as well as non-PvP activities such as challenges.
    • The new currency can be used to purchase upgrades, void chests, spawners & other valuable items.
    • The new currency IS RAIDABLE. Hitting a primary claim would transfer a portion of this currency to the raiding Faction (much like leaderboard points currently do).
    Any thoughts?
     
    #1 Bestle, Oct 17, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
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Comments

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by Bestle, Oct 17, 2017.

    1. BrandonDao
      BrandonDao
      Hi. Would everyone like to see that?
      The first comment
    2. lethal_shrekin
      lethal_shrekin
      yes!
      The second comment
    3. SereneSteel
      SereneSteel
      Make the currency worth more in larger amounts, for example 100k currency buys 10 spawners while 20k buys 1. Also make all currency lost when breached, to make it riskier to stockpile currency

      The third comment
    4. Bestle
      Bestle
      That would be harsh but not completely devastating, I like it!
    5. Pantha
      Pantha
      What is the map win based on tho? Points or value
    6. SereneSteel
      SereneSteel
      You'd win based on faction wealth, points would become tokens and you could use tokens to buy upgrades/spawners/etc, so PvP-based events would still be important
    7. EnchantedHoe
      EnchantedHoe
      Sounds good to me. I'm not sure of the original intent of the leadership board points. Are you diverting too far from that original goal??

      So the tokens and points are to roll into same thing but are separate from cash money used from selling correct? If they are separate then don't call it currency. Call it points - might be confusing.

      So, basically, there will be a separate factions bank aside from the money one for this new points/currency and it's raidable. If I am understanding this correctly, no one will EVER have anything in this fac bank. They will hide it somewhere or keep spending it ... anywhere if possible to prevent it from being raided away. If it isn't something that is measured (ftop) it will be empty especially if it can be taken away with zero raiding skills...or another possibility is that no one will care much about losing these points.

      Also...

      http://www.vaelox.com/threads/proposed-changes-to-primary-claims.2764/

      Is this a done deal? I'm starting to care less and less about primary claims by the minute but
      I would like to hear how primary claims are going to work. Will they still be assigned by the plugin based on value?? Min Max Y and all that?? Specifically I want to be able to get on and build a farm. The farms defenses are not something we make a top priority because we can fix it. We just build them and grind and make the base. I don't necessarily want my farm at my base and I don't want to check my farm's buffers! If someone slows us down by raiding my farm that should be the reward... slowing us down. I was tripping over that stupid farm under the grinder all season 4.

      You know what?? Go crazy with your upgrade/leaderboard/currency points thingies... Attila is going to build a (sort of) normal base and focus on good old f wealth. We can work with whatever weird things we have to do for upgrades, However... I will be very annoyed if a faction gets anything except temporary satisfaction for cannoning a cfarm.
    8. SereneSteel
      SereneSteel
      I think the purpose of the leaderboard points was to make a system where winning wasn't just based on sitting in your base and selling items, and to make raiding more interesting. With the new system that idea is still the focus, so I think it's a step in the right direction.

      The new system will just be vanilla wealth, like you've seen on servers in the past. Primary chunks are only designated if the chunk detects a certain amount of wealth or farm items, and the only thing you'll lose if TNT goes through them is growth rates/tokens.

      May as well just call them "tokens", since functionality-wise they're basically the same tokens from the past couple maps. Except this time they'll be in higher abundance, more important, and can be stolen from a faction if they're raided.

      I'd imagine that certain upgrade or items in the token shop would be pretty expensive, but also very worthwhile- so factions wouldn't just spend every little amount they get, and would have a decent stockpile up for grabs if they get raided. That was my motivation behind my suggestion above, to make the purchasing power of a token more valuable with the more you have of them. Essentially, to make it worthwhile enough for factions to save their tokens to spend on valuable prizes, and also take the risk that they may lose them in a raid.

      You made a couple good points in the last part there that I'd also like to address:

      1) I am assuming that much like the current tokens, they won't be able to be hidden or transferred between factions. If you could give an example of how a faction might do that i'd be interested, because I can't think of one myself. Ideally it'd also be worth the risk of saving tokens for better prizes, so factions wouldn't keep spending them as soon as they get them.
      2) You said if it didn't show up on leaderboards like ftop does, it wouldn't be as important for factions. These tokens would go towards buying eco items like void chests, spawners, upgrades that increase mob spawning/crop growth rates, and other such valuables that would very significantly effect your wealth. Factions would be very foolish to not manage their tokens properly, just like in the past couple maps. They also can't be taken away with zero raiding skills, as they'd only be lost by raiding primary claims that I'm *assuming* would be properly defended like the rest of your base.
    9. Bestle
      Bestle
      The incentives would be in place to encourage Factions to save up their points to be able to purchase something that is extremely good "value for points" rather than spending them as soon as they can afford something.

      We could very easily make farm freezing a totally separate mechanic that doesn't require any special claiming procedures. If we say that farms do not have to be primary claims but can be frozen by a cannon shot directly to the farm or to a primary claim that the Faction does own, I think we would have a happy balance.
    10. lethal_shrekin
      lethal_shrekin
      yes
    11. Pantha
      Pantha
      I liked the points system :( the way it was on the old map allowed new base designs (like attilas) and it spiced up raiding, instead of aiming for spawners you got to choice points or spawners. If u were raided for points and u had a good base design then u still had all ur wealth and tnt to make a cannon and try raid them back. The 2 issues i had anyway were firstly the lack of factions with brain cells playing so it looked pretty bad once honeydickers were gone and secondly the percentage of points u lost kinda sucked. But thats all changing now. Just cause im slow like a turtle the new points that are meant to be saved up are like faction tokens from last map but u can raid for them too????

      Oh oh oh and the farms i didnt like the primary's for farms but yea

      @Bestle @EnchantedHoe (bae<3) @SereneSteel
      Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
    12. TheBellyBongos
      TheBellyBongos
      Yes drop the leaderboard. We had our fun with it, now it needs to go.
    13. g33builder
      g33builder
      First off,
      PLAGIARISM http://www.vaelox.com/threads/lb-discussion.2739/

      Second, how many times do I have to explain to you ninnys that wealth is a shitty way to gauge the winner of the map. Whoevers idea it was to use a wealth system that builds uppon itself the more wealth gained deserves to be put in a mental instatution (@SereneSteel).

      Let me put this in simpler terms. With wealth you earn money to buy more wealth. In comparison torwards the old system, with wealth you earn a small amount of lb. What I am saying is that the higher you are on the leaderboard the more you are going to earn torwards keeping your spot.

      This however is not nearly the only problem with a system like this. Wealth becomes an even larger problem the further along it gets. The more wealth the more spawners right? The more spawners, the more you have to shoot for when cannoning. Nobody should have to cannon ghosts astounding 4 billion in spawners in to win a map. Listen to me when I tell you if you go down this path people will spread their spawners across their base and make cannoning a large amount impossible.

      The whole point of the LB system was to give pvpers a say in the outcome of the server. With changes like these you are making Vaelox a barren wasteland of players who love grind and will not leave their base.

      As far as I can see the only good thing about a system like this would be it making the core system redundant.

      The one thing I think i'm the most disturbed by is your seeming neglect of the previous post I linked to. I don't want to tell you how to do your job but it would be nice if you where more attentive to the server's forums (I have like 4 open tickets). Communication is key.
    14. lethal_shrekin
      lethal_shrekin
      you had a regular base like anyone else nothing special lol
    15. EnchantedHoe
      EnchantedHoe
      Throw out the primary chunks idea. Stay with me...

      If a faction gets TNT to pass through a claimed chunk, containing a spawner, they
      • Receive X% of the defending factions tokens
      • Any crops currently claimed by the defending faction are frozen for x amount of time.
      • Any spawners in the defending factions claims have lower drop rates for x amount of time.
      The potential exists to unclaim a line and reclaim with a alt fac in this scenario and the primary chunk scenarios. Also in this one, factions would want to pick spawners when a cannon went up. Here are some possible workarounds:

      To discourage factions from having grinders in unclaimed land or other factions land:

      Sell commands only work for spawner drops when you are in your own claims
      Sell wands only work in your claims
      Spawners drop rates are reduced in unclaimed land

      Ideas to discourage people from picking spawners when being raided:

      Chunks containing spawners will still be considered spawner chunks for 48 hours after all spawners are removed.

      Ideas to discourage people from unclaiming and reclaiming with a different fac while being raided:

      Chunks can be unclaimed any time, but the same chunk can't be reclaimed by any faction for 4 hours. (5 min oops period? "You have 5 min to reclaim this land or it will be unclaimable for 4 hours!)

      To discourage factions from having farms in unclaimed land or other factions land:

      Sell commands only work for cane, cactus and other crops when you are in your claims
      Hoes only work in your claims
      Sell wands only work in your claims
      Grow rates for crops are reduced in unclaimed land

      I haven't thought this all the way through and the potential exists in this scenario and the others to abuse the system by grinding in an alt fac during frozen periods or potentially hiding wealth in secluded grinders in alt fac claims. What I'm trying to avoid here is actually a few things, but primarily moving primary chunks around when you're feeling the heat. You can move bases but you have to keep guarding those spawner chunks for 48 hours after picking.

      I also thought (really late last night) maybe some sort of "Production Beacon" that allows spawners to work in a 3x3. The first "production beacon" is easy to get with an upgrade. Subsequent ones are exceedingly difficult. They brake when you pick them but cant be destroyed with TNT. Pass TNT through any of a defending factions "production beacon" chunks (3x3) and get a percentage of their tokens. They should be nontransferable, In other words, you couldn't just create an alt fac and get a new beacon whenever you needed one. Only Attila production beacons work in Attila claims. Add a perm so some yahoo doesn't break your beacon(s).

      Just some other ideas.
      :)

      @Bestle
      @HEEVES
      @SereneSteel
      Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
    16. g33builder
      g33builder
      S k y B a s e s

      T u n n e l i n g
    17. EnchantedHoe
      EnchantedHoe
      If someone tunnels through an entire buffer of walls they should get the tokens ffs. Tunneling was fun on optic.

      Skybases is interesting... maybe say tnt must pass through a spawner chunk within 75 blocks of a spawner (or production beacon).

      Factions raidinfo could give you a min max y (if youre going for tokens) based on spawner/beacon placement.

      Takes care of tunneling and skybases.
    18. g33builder
      g33builder
      Hmmmm sounds good.

      I just get a feeling theres a way to exploit this.
    19. g33builder
      g33builder
      Im just going to place this here since my old post has been abandoned.

      Criticism is appreciated, if we are going to have a good mechanic I need a more fine polished plan.



      g33's Plan Draft I

      * Get rid of the current point system.

      * Factions no longer require cores (first claim isn't core anymore)
      - Spawners that are not in the designated core area preform 15% slower.

      * Factions can no longer unclaim their cores without creating a ticket on the forums with good reason to do so.

      * New system should be elo based everyone starts off at the same level.

      * Lower elo facs get more lb from breaching higher elo facs and larger facs get less lb from breaching smaller facs (uses elo as a multiplier).

      * Not all factions end up on the LBtop from the get go. Every faction has to register using the command /f register (only available once you have at least 0.5% of the f wealth and a claimed core (caping at 10mil.
      - Once the player /f registers it places them on /f lb at the base level of elo.

      * %SpawnersDestroyed in one raid also acts as a multiplier on elo gained from a breach.

      * Daily f wealth and other lb point rewards (Drops, Koth, etc) provide elo.

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